I think what this project really needs to get off it's feet is a mascot. Might I suggest a penguin (Aptenodytes forsteri, in particular)? Penguins are well known for their excellent hearing, and vision.
____
/o o /
-- /
/ /
\--- /
/ /

We can call him "Pinbo the short-beaked penguin of Openlancerish Awesome," or Ptsbpooa for short.

Best of luck with your project, may Pinbo serve you well.

EDIT

Apprently TLR's forum software is distinctly anti-penguin in nature. You'll have to use your imagination, I guess.



Edited by - [NEOZ0PharX on 12/15/2005 6:37:30 PM

NOTICE: Ok, my Internet Explorer is acting screwy and so i'm reformatting my harddrive (technically i'm restoring an older image of my drive, back when it worked )

Needless to say, i will be inactive for the rest of tonight, so i'll probably be on about 2:30 PM Pacific time, or 6:00 AM GMT tomarrow

Edited by - Blackhole on 12/15/2005 6:43:18 PM

I was typing out a long reply to that 'Way to go' thread when Finalday locked it. All I have to say is this: I sincerely applaud your efforts man and I'm sorry I suggested that TLR take control of the project. I was merely saying that because indeed a community created project would have a better chance of success and it sounded like Open Lancer was dead. I really don't want to see this project die so I was wondering if TLR was interested in managing it but since its not dead I was wrong to suggest it and I'm sorry. Too, as Jask pointed out, I probably am a little detail obsessed but I also try to be as constructive as possible. I'm happy to help.

Now, penguins aside, the framework... you need to map out some standards for the framework and a detailed outline of the framework itself. My suggested framework will not work directly but could be made to work, just focus on the core stuff to get a functional engine build quickly while leaving it modular enough so you can do the really hard dynamic stuff later. Your best bet in creating the standards is figuring out exactly which core middle ware systems you want to use and then finding smaller systems that are compatible with those core systems. That way you get to literally build the game engine as if it were lego blocks...”one block does the 3D graphics rendering, another does 3D audio rendering, another does physics processing and so on.” I did some research on middle ware and typed up a bunch of stuff, I'll go ahead and rewrite some that with more detail, descriptions, and links to the project websites. Then you can figure out how to map out the framework and a set of standards.

I really want to see this succeed and I know a lot of other people do too. We can make this work, we can make it near professional quality, and at the same time get a functional game engine built within the original goal of 3 months. This might be idealistic but I think we could surpass Freelancer in overall game play quality within a year. Reason I say that is we have a few major things going for us, open source software and a huge and at times brilliant community...while Freelancer's team couldn't use the open source stuff for legal licenses reasons and their team was limited in size by a number of factors.

Anyway... I'll have a report of the middle ware systems available up tonight. After you get your computer back in working order you should take a look at Firefox, it really is better than IE when you add in the extensions.


-Burn

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"-Plato

Ok, you should all know that i am MUCH more accepting of ideas if i do not have my own ideas already in there. Thats just the way i work, so please bear with me

Needless to say, THIS time i will be listening to you, megaburn, and i do hope you can help me out in setting up this framework. So i will be reviewing your post later on after i get this stupid image to properly restore... God**** computer isn't doing anything right. GAH!

And 1 more thing: i'll be taking all of your advice except the firefox part

I, like Megaburn, was in the middle of a post when it was locked.
This is a good thing- you both obviously have a lot to offer.COMMUNICATE, DAMMIT- not call each other names. We( or at least I ) have a lot of faith that this can be done.I wish I could offer more than Moral ( and Verbal-lol) support,
But I'll do what I can- and I'm learning the other stuff.

As far as the Penguin thing , I get to be Skipper!!- and Rico is in house...

STUPID COMPUTER!!!!

Ok, um, things aren't going very well. At this rate i might have to reformat my entire bleeping hard drive.

This is going to be a looooooooooooong night.

And to everyone saying that age is not a bar to accomplishment, i think i would be aware of that or i would never have started this in teh first place. What i am saying, when i quote my age, is that some things are above me. Which is why i had a lot of difficulty in absorbing some ideas because they were waaaaay over my head.

Besides, i'm an A student for a reason

Edited by - Blackhole on 12/15/2005 9:05:59 PM

awesome, im 15 too and im just strugglin to pass sophomore biology, so ur way ahead of me with all this tech stuff

Anyways good 2 kno things are back on track

o ya, and the join the team thing is kinda gone, so i guess ill just post here

[email protected] for anything i can do to help

i bumped the thread, there is a reason i show all the topics from teh past 30 days.

Ok, now, about INI files. I would *like* to preserve at least SOME ini files, or let them have a similar function. If we can build a database or SQL or whatever you guys were talking about around an INI like interface it would be much easier for old-time modders to jump in.

Additionally, Robbio seems to have some kind of game engine up his sleeve, i'm waiting for more information. Stay tuned!

Edited by - Blackhole on 12/15/2005 9:16:18 PM

Fair enough, I'm not sure how much better Firefox is over IE7 anyway, I still have IE 5.5 on here (have it blocked in the Sygate 'firewall' too). That framework report will be on a new thread tomorrow due to length and level of detail. I splitting it up into five sections: header (1 page), summary (2 pages), details (uh 15 pages?), "fastest engine build" middle-ware details (+/- 5 pages), and notes/ideas/tips (few pages). Then I can answer questions or explain parts of it in even more detail.

After that I have to get back to my clans Evo add-on mod, we were supposed to have version 1 out before the end of the month but we still have six systems to create and a huge amount of info cards to write/process. Then I can help with OL some more before my clan gets started on version 2 of its mod, for that we're creating a set of 21 systems (from scratch) inspired by the Crossfire mod and another 20 or so systems for a "Delta Sirius" interdimmensional mirror of Sirius were the Nomad won the war. Version 2 should take 2 months or so, then I can help with OL for a little while. Then TES4 Oblivion will probably be out and I have 4 mods that I've already told a few people I'm creating, should take a few weeks to both complete the storyline and make the mods. After that I can spend all of my free time on Open Lancer but at some point this spring I'm moving and getting a new job, so I could go from dumping 80 hours a week into OL for a few weeks down to 10 hours a week for the rest of the year or longer. That is of course if you'll have me on the development team at that point...and nothing serious comes up between now and then.

Anyway, another big cup of coffee and I'll get back to work on this report...

EDIT: Yeah, we can setup an INI to database abstraction layer (translation/conversion between INI's and databases). I didn't really say that point blank in the framework I posted before but you can easily start with INI files now then switch to a database layer. The only problem with this is working out the headaches with updating the INI's during game play. That got me thinking though, we might be able to figure out a system where the static data is stored in the INI's and then all of the dynamic stuff is stored in some sort of temp or session file. Problem is still updating the players when they connect to the server and thats really going to be a headache without a more advanced database system in place.

Maybe the best way to handle it just leave that part out for a while, then modding and any in game changes will be limited to the same kinds of changes that can happen in Freelancer, then in a year or something we could do a massive upgrade that enables all of the persistant dynamic features (e.g. dynamic item creation). At that point, a year after release, there should be a fair number of mods so we would really have to work on INI abstraction. Maybe an auto conversion in the update server or something so its transparent to the players (other than a game engine patch). The same should be possible for translation between FL INI format and OL INI format, problem there is filling in the missing data...I'm rambling again, I disgress, in short, yeah, theres a way to do that and I have a few ideas on how to make it work.


-Burn

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"-Plato

Edited by - MegaBurn on 12/15/2005 9:44:59 PM

Can I make a suggestion about accepting suggestions?

Maybe it would help if Blackhole posted a brief summary of which aspects of the project are in-hand and working (so therefore he isn't looking for help with) and those which he is struggling with or which haven't been addressed yet (and therefore he is looking for input for).

I suggest this because it isn't clear for those of us on the outside, which is probably why Megaburn is suggesting conceptual ideas (such as what would make a good framework for the game engine) while others are saying that certain aspects (the graphics etc.), have already been decided upon or that source code is already starting to appear.
That way you can work out precisely what aspects of the project you need to call in outside help for.

I would also suggest that it might be more productive to focus on the core game engine for now and not invite suggestions or ideas from the community unless they relate to this.
Most of the suggestions I have seen seem to relate to specific game features or enhancements that are would be bolted on to the core engine. While they are often good ideas, most of then could probably be shelved until a bit later.
At the end of the day, the only person who knows whether a suggestion from anyone here is achievable, practical or important at this stage of development - is you.

By the way, has anyone here looked at the "I've Found Her" Babylon 5 game? This is a freeware game developed by (as far as I know) non-professionals and it looks very nice indeed. Granted, the scope of it is much less than the scope of an elite-style game such as Freelancer, but it just goes to show the kind of quality you can achieve.

I'm glad this is running again and your passion and determination to make this work does you credit blackhole.
We'll try and let you bake the cake before we start burying it in icing.

Oh yes, and the mascot should be a starfish, because it would be able to stick to the hull of a spaceship more effectively than a penguin.

Edited by - quercus on 12/16/2005 6:18:15 AM

Ok I'm Going To Try To Help Now You Didn't Tell Me What I Can Do Yet

Some questions here for you to ponder in this development.
1. Do you have a physics engine?
2. Do you have DLL's for this engine?

The physics engine regulates how ships fly and how weapons perform in 0 gravity. So, someone has to come up with this type of engine to make Openlancer "Fly".
Freelancer has this type of engine, although not entirely accurate.

Currently we have the following already built:

- Graphics Engine (Truevision3D)
- INI access
- Script Engine (being built)