yeah,i'm still disappointed with its mapping tho the texture is definitely getting better - i'm thinking i should export each part to obj then uvmap and reimport, as i think it should be easier to map the hard parts this way individually - this isn't critical on most of the ship but the fuselage and engines are completely circular and therefore impossible to unwrap nicely in milkshape. i also have the dilemma of how to map the xy-thruster housings on the engines,because they have two LODs, one which is a simple 90 degree wrap and the other which has had a hole made in the center to allow the thruster nozzles to show depth - most of the other LOD optimizations are just pop-on parts that i may eliminate depending on how (bad) they look in action

LOD poly counts:0:3900 approx, 1:2500 approx, 2:2000 approx, lod 3 planned, should be as low as 1000-1500

Cold_Void,

Yeah milkshape does not do a good job of mapping cylindrical objects, however Lithium Nnwrap and UV Mapper Classic do.. lithium unwrap even supports .ms3d file format and has a a very good cylindrical mapping feature, you can open an .ms3d file in it, map it and save it as .ms3d with mapping intact, thereby cutting down on the chances of error..

Admittedly these programs seem a bit complicated but once you get used to using them, they can help allow you to maximise the level of detail and still keep .mat file sizes (relatively) small. Lithium Unwrap is available free.. I have a link to it somewhere but try to google it if you are interested. If that fails let me know and i'll dig it out and pass it on.

Harrier

thanks for the tip its definitely superior to milkshapes texture coord editor, for reference its latest incarnation is called LithUnwrap 1.3

@cold-void dude what you think is good needs some work...you called the moya thing above your post rough then what is that starfighter, garbage.

@imperatodd less pollies, more restraint for Fl other wise not too bad.

well thats your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions - i would appreciate it if you wouldn't call my work, or anyone elses garbage - this thread has been set aflame before and i'm sure none of us would like to see that again so please try to be more diplomatic when you don't like a model. as to agreeing with imperatodd that the moya thing is rough,it is rough(and as i've said, i like it) - the area i was concerned with was the engine nacelles where faces are intersecting each other instead of sharing common vertices - this will look rough even after smoothing

perhaps you have some models of your own to share?

welcome to TLR

Edited by - Cold_Void on 8/7/2005 12:10:21 PM

unfinished model this is one i've tried to submit for a far more experienced modler to use but a person's false claims made e-mailing as an attachment it impossible. but tell me what you guys think
edit: name suggestions would be helpful

Edited by - arton alpha on 8/8/2005 7:37:41 PM

@Cold_Void:

Personally, what I see looks pretty good thus far. The Gunstar has a very distinctive set of colors, though, and what you've got looks a wee bit too blue. I'd try to somehow capture its white, barely-blueish coloration- iow, keep it subtle

As for Imperratodd's comment about symmetry, I think he's referring to the skin, not the model's geometry (although I may just be mis-interpreting his comments there- it's kind've hard to go off a one-liner). The top view showed that many of the top faces share a planar map, which should probably be mirrored from "right" to "left", and then gently detailed. That would give this a more professional look on some of the views.

As for what to use to unwrap it... well, I personally suggest UVMapper, but LithUnwrap is also very good- there really isn't much wrong with either program, and they're both free But I'd unwrap it, especially because you need higher resolution on the textures to get the detail levels you're going to want.

I've just about completed the Foxbat's skin template, and I'm going to make the texture template/MS3D available for people, because I think it might help folks get to the next level of skinning, if they haven't quite figured out how to use Layers to do anything more than just provide them with an area to apply decals or small details without risking their previous work. Essentially, I've figured out a way to make very useful bumps and other features, along with the "stressed hull panel" effect that people seem to like... that doesn't get painted into the main texture at all. This may sound useless, or just a curiosity... but, as you'll get to see when I release the final versions, it's going to allow me to complete several variants of the same ship with completely different "paint" but vert-for-vert matched bumps and detailing. What I have thus far is already pretty kewl, but the final versions should be awesome- this is really starting to come together well.

Also, I have made some nice tiling detail textures for "mechanical feature" areas of ships that I'll be sharing- I've been digging through my huge stock of textures from various games and have been re-combining/optimizing some of them to make some things with very useful effects that can save skinners a lot of time on areas where hand-painting isn't necessary. Obviously, such things can be over-used and look lame/derivative, so this isn't a substitute for learning how to paint, but they're still very useful imho

@Opinion-Whatever:

Either submit art for critique... or don't bother critiquing here. It's a basic rule of fairness- I would feel like a royal dork if I told people like Imperratodd, Harrier et al that they could improve their work, if I hadn't proven that I, too, know what I'm talking about. While I don't think that Cold_Void's current WIP is the coolest ship ever made, it's a WIP, and it's coming along very nicely for its polycount, in my opinion, and will end up being pretty faithful to the original art it's based on. Sure, it could be a bit tighter on the modeling end- but the texture is going to make it work, and it's clear that Cold's doing the work needed to make it kick butt. IOW... if you wanna have an attitude... then show us your "leet" work. Just about everybody here who expresses an opinion here has passed that basic test, which is why ... while the critiques aren't always positive, they're constructive and usually useful to some degree.

@Arton:

Well, you're obviously pretty new to this modeling stuff, so I'm not going to be my usual brutal self At any rate, what I'm seeing here looks like a very interesting idea, visually, that you're having trouble executing. I would suggest that:

A. Hand-draw the design out from the side, top and front/back, to get a better idea of what you want. Don't over-detail it, or make some visual masterpiece- just sketch the basic geometry. Remember, when it comes to game models... it's all about making less do more. So keep it simple, and try to imagine it textured.

B. Keep your existing model as a reference- don't just chuck it out.

C. Rebuild, using your reference drawings and the existing model as a guide. Start from scratch, and build it using all of the things you've learned from the first go-through.

In short, don't be surprised if you find it a lot easier to get things the way you want if you try it again. I will admit that at this point, I rarely have to rebuild an entire model to make things the way that I wanted... but I often rebuild parts of a model that I don't like, and go through several revisions before I release a finished work. IOW, don't get frustrated and quit- if 3D modeling were easy, then everybody would be a master artist- the main difference between most of the people who're really good and the rest of us... is not so much artistic talent as it is technical competance and practice. There's nothing one can do without some basic talent, of course- one should know a little color theory and know how to see things... but for the most part, making 3D art is mainly about being patient, looking carefully at your goals, and making the most of your work, even the mistakes

Edited by - Argh on 8/8/2005 11:54:40 PM

this is actually the first model i was satisfied enough with to keep working on, in fact i was able to submit it but forgot to send a screen shot with the file course i've only had milkshape for three months and was only able to work with it at one in the morning i'll get better with time and you were right i am new to modling very new in fact. i know i've just started to scratch the surface on modding in general and i'll keep tring, it's kind of fun when i think about it

Finished the corsair freighter which I have called "Zeus Heavy Freighter" for the time being (really need a better name).
Its not exactly great art I admit, but it is true to the freelancer ships of the original and fits in nicely. Some aspects aren't perfect, but this really isn't my main thing so I'm not planning on making any more changes.
Gamewise, i've set it as being only seen travelling a trade path from Crete>Tripoli>Leon>Cadiz. Its got a 4/4 weap config, max 8,opt 6 (The turrets are all 7). Armour 10800, cargo 245, engine: typical freighter. It might seem a little tough, but compared to some other freighters in my mod I might need to beef it up a bit. Comments?


Zeus Heavy Freighter

Zeus Heavy Freighter


More ships at another location

Edited by - M-A-C-E_166 on 8/9/2005 4:52:13 PM

@Arton alpha don't worry it takes time to improve, believe me, the first model I did was terrible, but I have learned and with each new attempt you learn and hopefully better yourself. Those who defend mediocrity are propping up their inability to improve, their lack of initiative, or talent. Adding to Argh’s suggestions I recommend trying to make it in clay, or making other shapes, executing in 3d can help you make in a 3d program. Also just make shapes at random, watch your symmetry and don’t be afraid to eyeball alignment. The more you do it the better you will become. Personal experience. Also don’t let the 10,000 verts limit you, you can make whatever you want for yourself, and if you want to play with it in Fl them optimize it using alternative pieces and objects. It is important to exercise your ability to imagine an object in your head, as it is to execute design. And for a while you may have better designs than executions, but that will change. Also my best tip no matter what you do for a while for you or not don’t model over 10,000 pollies. No matter the ship try and execute it in 10,000 pollies or less, better if less. This way you learn how to optimize on your own then soon it will become old hat to you (second nature, 1920’s sayings are the bee’ knees). You have talent don’t give up.

@Argh That is exactly what I meant. I wasn’t too clear but I thought it was obvious. But I like the shape of the model. You are pretty good, have you every thought of using Max or another better tier program. Milkshape is limiting and the selecting and reshaping can leave surface anomalies as I saw on your gunstar. That is also what I was referring to.

@Cold_Void The faces are actually fine it is just the render and the site it is going through. The actual model is much cleaner than the images indicate. When I first saw the way they looked on the forum I was taken aback, but soon realized that the problems were in fact the images.

For those who unfairly criticize someone else’s work, whether it be obviously or covert, it shows either jealousy or ignorance but in many cases it is both so lay off let every one else do as they will not all of us have the time or the experience to excel in all endeavors and besides talent whether rough of shined blossoms at its own pace and rate.


Edited by - ImperaTodd on 8/9/2005 3:34:43 PM

@MACE-166:

I really like how that freighter came out- while it's not "perfect", it definately has that Corsair feel to it, looks reasonably low-poly, and looks functional. I'd like to see a shot of it flying though, where it's fully lit- that dark ShipDealer doesn't really do it justice.

The only little thing that I think you should alter is the glass color- it's the default blue. You can change that by altering the Dc values for that Material using UTF Edit, to match the Corsair values (just look up the equivalent value in one of the Corsair MATs). Then it would match up fully.

Otherwise... while it has some smallish problems, like the textures wrapping around the edges of the wings (which, unfortunately, could only be fixed by re-doing the projections- needless to say, I'm not holding my breath, hehe) ... it's still pretty nice looking, and the panel lines, etc., look pretty good.

Greetings.

First of all, I want to thank every person who posted or contributed to a tutorial on modelling and texturing ships. Without the EXCELLENT information I found here (without posting even one noob question, btw) I would never have gotten to where I am.

Here are links to my first three original ships. The pics aren't 100% up to date, i.e. some things have been improved or changed, but you get the general idea.

The "Razorbeak"

The "Jesterblade"

The "Gnat"

In an effort to bring in new design ideas (due to my very limited imagination), I'm offering factions on the Evolved RPG server I play on the opportunity to have custom built ships, made to their specifications, that only their factions will be allowed to fly. Once the orders start coming in, I'll have more work to show you.

Once again, thanks so very much to those of you who have contributed over the months and years to make this forum such a great resource to aspiring shipwrights! Especially Drizzt, Imagine, and Argh, your tutorials are so useful that I printed out color copies and bound them so that I could study and reference them anytime I need to.

And to any of you people thinking that making ships is too hard to even consider, don't be discouraged by a couple of false starts. If you really want to make ships for Freelancer, all the tools and knowledge you need is right here. Use it!


http://www.evolvedones.com

Edited by - Silent Jay on 8/10/2005 12:46:03 AM

@Silent Jay:

From the looks of things, skinning might turn out to be your strong suit- for first attempts, these skins show that you've been actually paying attention to getting your models grouped and setting up your uvmaps with some care. You need to work harder on matching up join areas (this is one of the more painful parts of skinning, but it just can't be avoided entirely if you want things to look "pro", and if I were you, I'd go check out some art sites talking about color theory, so that you can execute work that's not just various shades of gray (without horrible clashing) but these are all minor quibbles- for "my first ships", these are pretty nice- I like how you've resisted the traditional newbie urge to make some 100,000 poly monsters because they can't figure out how to model the complex by using the simple + a good skin

If I were you, I'd study up on how to do glowmaps and glass effects (I cover that in my Tutorial), get your uvmapping skills tight, and hook up with some modelers- we have a lot more raw modeling talent around here than skinning talent, and you might form a good synergistic partnership with some artists to make some pieces that are better than the sum of either artist's work

A couple of outside views of the Zeus, it does show that the rear of each of the wings has gone dodgey. Looks like I might need to redo..
Zeus Outside1
Zeus Outside2
Zeus Outside3
Zeus Outside4

Also, done some funky Hovis racers for the Hovis fix in General Modding.
Hovis Racer Blue
Hovis Racer Red
Hovis Racer Green
Hovis Racer Purple
Hovis Racer Yellow
I know they are basic, I had hoped to create something along the lines of the Wipeout style games. Sadly, I really don't have the skinning abilities. Still, they're funky, only really of use in beating hovis so gamewise they don't ruin any balance.