Hi, just bought my ship in-game, and it is upside-down. Also, there is nothing attaching to the hard points.

The textures all show up, but the cockpit glass is just a plain blue, instead of the texture I placed on it.

The only thing I could do was exit the battleship I placed it on, and dock again. It has no engines, shield, or anything else for that matter.

I'm thinking it is most likely either my .cmp file, or my .mat file.

I have these in a separate folder, along with the flipped textures. Should they be somewhere else?

I made the .cmp with cmp exporter, and then added to it with the new mat exporter. Should I do it all with the new mat exporter?

**Edit**
I hope they get the site search working fairly soon. I did page finds all over for FLScan, but had no luck finding it.
**********

Thanks in advance for any help.

**Edit 2**
I also noticed a couple of typos in the Tut. Running Lights, and Docking Light are both only shown as 01. They need to be 01, 02, 03... in order to have more than one in game.
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**Edit 3**
I just went into MS3D and flipped the ship upside down, then I used MAT Exporter v0.1 to fix the cmp and the mat files.

I also made sure all of my textures were linked to the flipped ones in my in-game mod folder, and that the ship ini points to that folder for the cmp and mat.

Still does the same thing.
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**Edit 4**
It appears that cmp exporter is not putting my hardpoint data in the cmp file. I exported another one, but it still doesn't show any information in the hardpoint section.
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**Edit 5**
I thought I might have a mount that was upside-down, but I tried all kinds of different things, including making a new one, and nothing worked.

HardCMP even loads it upside-down.
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**Edit 6**
I got it rightside-up, by flipping it over without the mount selected, and dropping it below the mount. Strange, but it worked.

I got the cmp to show data by importing from the ms3d file, but it still has no hardpoints.

I'll try placing them with HardCMP next, but I'm still having trouble with that program. I tend to lose my oreintation when I flip things around, so I've just been typing the numbers in, rather than use the mouse to move the hard points.
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**Edit 7**
No answer here in almost 2 days, so I guess these forums aren't as active as I thought they were. I haven't wasted my time though. I've been reading in the tutorial forums and found some answers that might be what I'm looking for.

It appears that you are suppose to start your model upside-down.

I think my hardpoint problem is probably caused by them being listed in the wrong order.

I'm also going to resize my textures before placing them again.

It would be nice to see this information included in the next update to the tutorial, since it would save noobs like me a whole lot of rework.

It's mostly my own fault though, since I just jumped into it without reading all the tutorial threads first. I have since spent about 12 hours reading, and I'm still not anywhere close to being done. There is a lot of information to sort through to get to the answers that are needed.
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**Edit 8**
Well, upon further reading, it appears I had been using an older version of the cmp exporter, so I downloaded the newest one.

I'm going to go back in and redo all my hardpoints and textures in the proper order. Hopefully that will solve the last of my problems.
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Later


Edited by - Zapper2 on 8/28/2006 3:02:27 PM

I was hopeing Harrier would answer you, but he's busy with his mod and there's no other experienced ship builders around any more, so it looks like us novices and amateurs will have to try and help.

These forums are read regularly but unless someone with the right knowledge reads your post their not going to answer you. Most of the top model makers we used to have are either to busy with their own stuff to help here or have long since moved on to other games or projects.

My last post in this thread (bottom page 21) has 3 links, 2 to the newest versions of the CMP & MAT exporters and the third to HARDCMP, I'd suggest you replace your existing plug-ins with those.

This tutorial is 2.5 years old and a little out of date, HardCMP is how we hardpoint ships nowadays, this means you don't have to subdivide a face in MS3D to create them any more.

**Edit 6** ???? what version of HARDCMP have you got ???? theres no hardpoint positioning with the mouse on the one I use, it's all done by numbers.

Which side up is really a matter of personal choice as the exporter handles both, the picture in my last post shows what is called "back to front", the purple Z-axis line sticking out of the back of the ship. The "upside down" orientation is a case of rotating the model 180 degrees through the X-axis.

Textures are either .TGA or .DDS, TGA can be any size and shape, DDS need to be ^2 ie 128x128, 128x256, 256x256 etc.

If you've used "glass" in your cockpits name or material name then the MAT exporter hasn't added your texture to the MAT file. Glass in FL is generally untextured, the MAT uses either a "Hue" or "diffuse" setting (or some such), the MAT exporter takes a color sample from the texture and uses that for the glass. You can get your texture to appear in game but it requires a little editting of the MAT withUTF Edit.

**shuffles of with a new headache**

Edited by - Bejaymac on 8/28/2006 3:08:51 PM

Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to think I was alone in here. LOL

I'm using hardcmp-v1.0.0.18.exe, which allows mouse movement, but it's very difficult to master.

I downloaded Harrier's hardpoints and pilot, and I'm going to attempt to use those.

I also created my own equalateral triangles, before I found Harrier's, and subdivided them by 3, so they had a center point to refer to, then shrunk them down.

I guess I'll see which I like the best, but I'll definitely use the pilot for sizing.

I'm sorry to hear that a lot of the people have moved on. Freelancer is a great game. I purchased it in '04 and played for about 6 months, just got back into it, and decided to try modding for the first time.

A friend of mine is running a private server with Evolutions installed, which is what got me back into the game. Now I'm trying to get members of my family involved.

**Edit**
Here are links to the current model.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2305/stirgej2fighterhb6.png

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4294/stirgej2fighter02nn7.png

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9440/stirgej2fighter03wp6.png
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Later

Edited by - parabolix on 8/28/2006 7:17:53 PM

Zapper,

I edited your links to make them clickable.

To everyone,

If you'd like, I can start contributing to this thread more often. I am a fairly experienced modeller. I'm also Harrier's partner in crime, so I'm busy with the mod as he is, but one of us should usually be able to find the time. I generally stay in the General Editing forum, but I'll start swinging by here more often to try and help. Also, while I'm posting this, here is a shameless plug for another thread. If any of you shipwrights have some models (finished or WIP, doesnt matter) that you'd like to show off, you can show them here . It's always nice to see work from the community. I'll try to get some pictures up of my newest ship too.

Edited by - parabolix on 8/28/2006 7:22:59 PM

Thanks for making them clickable. Should I be posting them in the other area instead?

Later

bloody clear fields.. grr..

I put a page of text here then lost the bloody lot when I tried to post it..

and I'm out of time.. so this will be brief

Tga.. I rarely use them as they must be flipped top to bottom and make for large .mat file sizes particularly once they get over 512 x 512.. cumbersome.. (tho they are used for planets - but dont need to be) they should be square and 24 bit and while freelancer accepts odd sizes so long as they are square .. that is not always the case so stick to 64 x 64, 128 x 128, 256 x 256 and 512 x 512.

I prefer .dds.. They dont need to be flipped, are smaller file sizes. and in my opinion give better resolutions as the can be saved with LOD's in the smaller sizes and compress better, tho they should be 64 x 64, 128 x 128, 256 x 256 and 512 x 512 with LODS but can go to 2048 x 2048 (without LOD's) they can be saved with or without alpha channels and can - as bejaymac points out - be used to apply textures to glass - with some work in utf - plus using utf they can also be transparent and or illuminated..

Ships.., that seems to have been more or less answered tho with the original .cmp exporter the model had to be upside down and facing you.. the later versions allow orientation by a menu item..

Am out of time.. if you have any further questions post and I'll try to answer them..

Harrier

P.S.. hardpoints do not need to be subdivided to find the center .. drizzt method is not the best way to do it.. and makes .. or can make for problems as hardpoints can be textured by mistake and can then throw some really weird errors..

Edited by - harrier on 8/28/2006 8:35:48 PM

Hi Harrier, I'm sorry you lost the post. I'm sure It would have been enjoyable to read.

I'm still using TGA files, until I figure out nVidia's converter anyway.

I have a new problem. I have built a new ship model, but it has turned Black in MS3D and textures won't show up on it.

Still looks alright in flat shading mode, but is now solid black in smooth shaded or textured mode.

I didn't notice this, until I started to texture it, and switched to texture mode.

I did try the model 'cleaning' plug-ins on this model. That's about all I did differently, so I'm thinking it may have something to do with it.

The 'cleaners' kicked the poly count up to just over 10k, so that may also have something to do with it.

They also put textures in. Something called 'foomaterial', or something like that, which I removed before I started my textures.

I was trying to use space based scenes for textures. Star fields and nebulea shots, which I sized and converted in PS. They are all in the 128x128, 256x256, and 512x512 range, and are saved as 24 bit TGA files.

I have continued to edit it, since I wanted a very dark look for it anyway. It is going to be a smuggler, bounty hunter ship. Basically a heavily armed cargo ship.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2060 ... redbr6.png

**Edit 1**
Here are shots before I started texturing, while I was still in the editing process.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2802 ... redua1.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8558 ... d02vm9.png
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**Edit 2**
On the subject of DDS files, I downloaded the wrong set of tools from nVidia. I now have the plug-ins for PS and will install them in a minute. Then I'll start using that type of file, since it doesn't require flipping.

How does everyone separate their textures before sticking them in-game?

I made a separate folder for my mod, but it is getting crowded with just 2 ships. Can I make more folders, as long as I refer to them in the INI files?

If I can get these ships working, I may start on a MOD, but I'd be interested in hearing how people keep their files straight while working on one. I want it to be organized and usable by Freelancer, so I'm asking ahead of time.
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**Edit 3**
[IMGhttp://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3977/08312006230241ro0.th.jpg[/IMG
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**Edit 4**
After some experimentation, it's the 'smooth edges' tool that turns it black. I thought it might be flipping the polys, so I tried doing the negatives, but that is not the case. I can't reverse it now, so I guess I have a black ship. I just won't use that tool anymore. It adds too many polys anyway.
**********


Later

Edited by - Zapper2 on 8/31/2006 4:53:52 PM

Edited by - Zapper2 on 8/31/2006 10:48:36 PM

Edited by - Zapper2 on 8/31/2006 11:05:34 PM

Edited by - Zapper2 on 8/31/2006 11:56:13 PM

mmm,


The model cleaner in MS3D is basically useless.. get lithum unwrap.. (there are links here aplenty, or google it..).. run optimiser..its truly the best..if after that the model is still black.. select all and reverse vertex's then run optimiser again...

For some weird reason the latest versions of ms3d turn faces black if you mirror them .. so lessay you cut the ship down the middle and mirror it, the result can be half black.. now say you select all then rotate it to the correct orientation.. black again..
there are two fixes.. temporary.. is select three vertexs and create face.. this can have a dramatic effect.. black to silver.. if it remains black select all and reverse vertexs.. then try again.. finally run litium unwrap before you texture.. (it does a very handy job of setting up texturing as well..) The interface is almost as powerful as the max texturing interface on basics like box and cylindrical mapping.. but fairly simple to use.. it does have limits however.. but can do some nice stuff..

second fix is use lithium unwrap's optimise feature after EVERY major model change..

Hmmmm.. 10K polys is out there for freelancer.. a few of these at the same time is gunna = lag in multiplayer.. the liberty cruiser is about 8k polys and a few of those do that ...

fighters should ideally be under 5 K ..the fewer polys per ship = the more you can have at the same time without lag being a *****..

Harrier

Since the site search function is still down, I googled lithium unwrap.

Every site I found says it has been replaced by ultimate unwrap, and that is no longer a freeware program.

I'll keep looking, but I've been to quite a few sites with the same result.

On a brighter note, I'm about to try out my Stirge craft again. The cmp picked up the hardpoints fine, after I found that it worked without spaces in the HP names. I was writing Hp / Fixed ... instead of Hp/Fixed ... since that is what it looked like in the tutorial. Funny how a simple space in the wrong place can mess things up. LOL

Later

Argh sent it to Bp so it's in the D/L's here.

hardpoints should be "Hp/Fixed/HpMount", that's "shift"+"\"

**shuffles of with a new headache**

Thanks for the link. I'll try it out after I get done playing with the first ship.

Yep, I know it's the 'pipe', shift plus \, but the forum changes it when I type it, so I just left it that way. Guess I should have edited it, sorry.

I now have a CTD when I go to buy my Stirge fighter, so I'm looking for typos in the equipment ini. Dang, I'll get this thing flying yet. LOL

**Edit**
The Stirge_J2 is flying!!!!!!! Still have a few tweaks, but it looks pretty good.
*****

Later

Edited by - Zapper2 on 9/1/2006 5:01:25 PM

hi all
I just tried Drizzt's tutorial and it's awesome

I do have a few problems however. I went through the tutorial, completing everything just as the tutorial said i should, but when i went into freelancer some of the guns on the wings of my ship are on the wrong side of the wing. I've tried moving the mount further away from the wing, cause that worked on my turret which had the same problem, i tried re-doing the mounts (i used a seperate plane and not a plane created from splicing ship polys), moving them around, even moving them to the other side of the wing and nothing works. My only clue is the wings might be a little too thin, but even so i need help.

I also cannot get the textures to work. i flipped them vertically with the pic2pic converter but my ship is still annoyingly white and shiny. Any ideas?

**Edit 1**

I also used the ShipScripter-V-1-2-1 program by Crabtree. Awesome program, but could that have something to do with my problems?

**Edit 2**--edited

here are some images (click to enlarge)

the red is for the faulty weapon mounts


Thanks parabolix for helping me with the pictures i'd have never gotten them myself

Edited by - 0blivion on 9/20/2006 1:47:24 PM

Oblivion...

Welcome to TLR You will need to relink your images I looked at your post and that is nowhere near correct If you need some help getting images on the web...

Go to www.photobucket.com and set up an account. You can upload images there from your computer and then link to the images directly on TLR.

Oblivion, you could try using HardCMP or UTF Editor to flip the guns upside down (while keeping them in the same position), thus making them appear on the other side of the wing