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Here you can find anything related to the Open Source, Freelancer like game project Openlancer.

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:54 pm

Alright, I have been tasked with responding to a couple of these comments regarding Openlancer, to be specific those posted by the idiots who think it will fail. I call them idiots, because they see no other way of how Openlancer will work, the only way they see it happening is not at all. These "idiots" are severly pessimistic towards this game, spreading biased liees about a project that they WANT to fail. They want it to fail, because why else would they be slandering it so? Alright, now to respond one by one:

MegaBurn: I would like to say a few things about you, that I hope won't have a positive affect, but oh well, I don't really care. All your fancy terms aside, you want Blackhole to relinquish control over the Openlancer project, right? When it was HE who came up with it, HE who started it, HE who announced it, and it will be HE who finishes it and makes it available. Capiche? And just in case you didn't catch what I'm saying, it's HIS project, and he's not going to give it up. After all, I'm pretty sure if YOU started something that had as much time and effort put into it as Openlancer, YOU'd want to be the one in control of it, right? By the way, that was a rhetorical question, it doesn't need an answer. Just in case you didn't catch that.

Tachyon: You open up with a couple of quotes, and use them to your advantage, so I figure I might as well, too.
"Half the people who showed no support dont even know what stress, long hours, and hard work was put into Openlancer".
You answer that with saying that the people who DID put the stress, long hours, and hard work into Openlancer don't even know what real work is. Very clever, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't say that they were putting stress and hard work into a game that isn't even for themselves unless they WERE putting that hard work in, right? I guess that makes it my turn to use that quote then. If HALF the people don't know what hard work and effort was put in, then what about the other half? THEY SHUT UP, because they DID know what effort was being put into a game that was being made FOR THEM. Next quote, please:
"Blackhole is 15 for anyone who was blind to see, how was he supposed to do everything you wanted?"
You claim that the golden rule of game development is to know when to set limits. I disagree. I say that the gold rule of game development is to know w hen to BREAK limits. Limits are set on a day-to-day basis, to make sure you don't overwork yourself, they're not for an entire project! If nobody in the gaming world broke limits, we'd still be stuck on Pong. And I don't know about anyone else, but I'd get pretty sick of virtual tennis after a while. A very, very, short while. Next, the irony in you freaking out at them over them being victims is oh so juicy. Not only does that villify yourself, but it also proves you wrong. If you complain to them about what they're saying about the project, about them not being victims, then it just MAKES them victims. Idiot. Whoops, did I say that? Too late now, my "delete" button is broken, from deleting all the stupid messages about how Openlancer will fail. Anyways, you point out the "nessesity" of asking for Microsoft's permission. Let me ask you this: how many mods out there do you think there are that have been made WITHOUT ASKING THE PERMISSION OF THE OWNERS? (Rhetorical, by the way). Now I know this is much different than a mere mod, so I can see that there is a difference. But my point remains. Next, blah blah blah put some stuff into the design document. Well, I thought that we had established that the project was SUSPENDED because of people like you, who were asking way too much. And it may not seem like much to you, but combine it with everything else that's being asked of Blackhole. And your next point was just proved wrong, yet again, by my last reasoning: SUSPENDED. And now, we're almost done. Let me ask you a question: if someone wanted to put some serious effort into this, why don't you? Instead of whining about what Blackhole's doing wrong, why don't you help make it? Surely that would be more productive towards Openlancer than pointing out flaws in his design document? Well, guess what: while you've been complaining, Blackhole's actually been WORKING on it, even though the project has been suspended. So if the focus you want for TLR is your whining and complaining about what's wrong with the project, then I don't think that it would be very rewarding at all. Besides, the project IS Blackholes; not mine, not yours, not anyone else's, HIS. And HE is going to make it as HE sees fit. Thank you.

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:55 pm

-

Edited by - Blackhole on 12/15/2005 4:59:52 PM

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:57 pm

i dont know how you think you've been putting this but from our point of view, it sounds like you think were not capable of coming through on an idea that we came up with.

form our point of view, it looks like you want to develop the game your own way, on your own terms, and take it away from us like taking a toy you think is dangerous away from a little kid. but we can handle it. all we ask for is people to help us complete the project the way we want the project to be completed, a way that everyone will like. not just the way that you people would like it to develop and turn out.

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:06 pm

Why is it that everything i do is somehow wrong?

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:07 pm

How have you come to such a conclusion? I'm participating in a dicussion on the internet pertaining to the cease of development of Openlancer. It's of interest to me because I wanted to see the project succeed. I certainly have made no attempt to force Blackhole's hand on anything, and nobody can unless he lets them. You are allowed to ask for help if you want, but it doesn't make much sense to be angry when those who do offer help don't turn out to be the opinionless robot slaves you seem to want. Nobody has to help you and you don't have to let anybody help you, much less force you to do this or that.

Frankly, there's no need for all this defensive hostility, nobody is trying to or can force you to run your project any way other than how you want to.

Edited by - Tachyon on 12/15/2005 5:07:28 PM

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:08 pm

@morden and others: alot of the 'helpful suggestions' have been way to complicated, and time consuming to possibly implement, sure these suggestions were nice, but what we are really bugs about is the "this is what you should do" attitude that we have been recieving. if your going to give us a suggestion, make it a suggestion, not a command. we accept help, but not if that help wants to dictate how the project should be developed.

i point this mostly towards megaburns few posts telling us to implement a very specific system, and not suggesting it. i cannot stress how much that we dont mind opinions, but we just dont want people telling us what to do. it makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited by - Infernias on 12/15/2005 5:11:32 PM

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:14 pm

That's a perfectly acceptable position to have, in fact it's healthy for game development. You can't do everything. Theres just no need to get all angsty, create drama, and shut down your project when somebody says something you don't like. It's much more productive to just ignore them.

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:15 pm

@Infernias, A "this is what you should do" Statement IS a sugjestion. A "This is what you will do" is a command, big differnce, and no one has said this yet.

Bottom line is this. If you don't want costructive advise and sugjestions, then keep the project private and off line till comple. If you post here, you will get ideas and sugjestions and offers of help. Seems you don't want this though. As to the comment of you not knowing how to do it? Well, judgeing by some of Blackholes posts, he doesn't know or understand some aspects of the game making, and can either go on with out it, or be open to constructive critisim and ideas. simple as that. Your choice.

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:30 pm

Ok, alow me to be the voice of reason in this mess.

1. This is BlackHole's project, he should decide what happins with it. If he says no, then its a NO.

2. BlackHole SHOULD take suggestions more seriously, and with better self control then he did, but thats the past, and everyone makes mistakes.

3. It truly does look like MegaBurn is trying give posetion of this to LR, which as much as I'd like a publicly owned game, this is HIS game vision. What is needed is a compramise.

4. So far several people have treated BH as... well... "a little kid" or have used terms and words that he is not familier with. Pick a middle ground in between the 2 extreams.

5. Some where along the line we lost track of "simple is best" and now are posting 5,000 word long posts that are long, boreing, and some people just don't feel like reading. Lets use SIMPLE terms and SHORT posts so there is NO confusion. Our founding fathers did that with the Constitution, and it worked *although some people today want to change the Constitution... lol*

Can we do this folks?

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:35 pm

I hate all of this. Therefore...

Lets put this all behind us. Lets put this topic away, lets delete it, lets start over. I for one, even being 15, know that i should probably listen to people, and for once i would like to do the RIGHT thing.

So lets try this again, and this time, lets try and do it right. Instead of doing the easy thing and making this a hidden project, i will make it open to the public once again and i will try and incorperate ideas.

There is a word in there that you should not overlook: "Try". I am willing to give this a second chance, because i hate this topic and where it has led. Everyone here has good intentions and i reconize that. I'm sorry that i haven't been able to listen, but i haven't said this was easy. I never expected it to be easy, but that doesn't change the fact that it ISN'T easy, and sometimes you just have to give me a little leeway. My age does not, in fact, have anything to do with the project, but it does indeed limit my abilities. Expierience can only be gained through age, and you all have a lot more than i do.

So lets give this another go, shall we?

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:09 pm

I for one appluad BLackhole for even attempting this project. and I would love to see OpenLancer built to fruitation. It has allot of promise.

Saying that though, makeing a standalone game is intensive work. It takes great patience, time, effort, and knowledge.

Blackhole has programming knowledge. And being that he is only 15, i think he is doing a great job of the learning curve. I have seen some of the source code or the project and he is doing well.

@Blackhole, Mate you have to realize that when you embark on the road to create your own game you will get more ridicule, harrassment, and insults about the project than you will anything else, thankfully though, you have chosen to bring into the fold a great community here at TLR. for the most part they are very supportive, adn will provide you with a great deal of help, as i am sure your aware.

As you know matey, i too have been developing my own game. This game has been in development for about a year now and it is only now that i feel i can start developing the first mission for the game.

Take your outline and break it down into tasks and prioritize them into 2 lists:

1) Must have's
2) Nice to have's

----
What i said above is pretty generic and most of which is mentioned threwout the OpenLancer forum.

I could keep going on and on. but remember, making games takes time, lots of time, dedication, and mega patience.

You have my MSN , if you want help with the programming, art, ect ... i can help. But i do have a full time job to keep up too. Which negates quite a bit of time. let me know, an dplus if you just wanna hash things out, talk whatever, just msg me.

Post Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:20 pm

Since Blackhole has decided to give it anoter go, see the thread Attempt #2, I am locking this one from further comments so anger, tempers can cool off.

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