FL Real Economy Mod - Traders, Testers and INI Hackers neede

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:32 am by grover

Hello everyone,

let me introduce myself first. My name is Mike and I've been reading silently in this and other FL modding forums for quite some time. I've long wanted to have a real economy in FL, which adapts to the things I do and others do in the game.

I've been working on a solution to provide a real economy for FL and I am now at a point, where it basically works for SinglePlayer. The features the solution provides:

- Really integrated into FL, no executable to run along FL:

The stuff *YOU DO* affects the economy of the *whole UNIVERSE* *IMMEDIATELY*. Let me give you an example: Someone shoots down a large Transport train, which delivers a good to a destination. The price of the good will *rise* at the destination (as demand can't be met anymore) and a *NEWS* report will be available for this event in the bar. This allows for pirates to actually make more money by keeping a tradelane down.

- Supply, Demand and Event based Economy

I already gave the example of shooting down a transport train above, but this is only one event. Other events may include: A production facility is down for maintenance and MOX or other goods can't be produced anymore. These events will happen randomly or in certain intervalls and thus influence the economy.

Each Base has a supply and demand state for every available good. This setup along with the events causes prices to vary - even as you are at a base. Prices even vary if you sell or buy stuff at a base.

- My solution can be adapted to different mods, extended for any number of stations

The economy is controlled through an additional INI-file, which can be adapted for different mods.

What currently does not work: Multiplayer. Simple because I'm not a MP player and have not had time to test this in a MP setup. I *WILL* do so however, as I think my implementation is portable to an MP server and can be used there.

Now I've written about the *realized* possibilities of this solution, however I need some help for the final steps:

- I need a couple of people, which know how to hack the following files: market_commodities.ini, goods.ini and news.ini. You may need to know how to add new ids_name and ids_info entries into a custom DLL (no modifications of an existing DLL or EXE are made in this mod.).

I am looking for a team of people which will discuss in a friendly matter the relationships of goods between the systems. My primary goal is to release this FL mod with the vanilla FL extended for a dynamic economy. What needs to be done here: Write the supply and demand stuff for every station and system. Define events which can happen in a system, which affect prices etc. I will provide a manual for the new INI-file and how to extend the other ones.

- I need a number of testers

My wish is that the testers (preferably *TRADERS* and *PIRATES*) play with the mod and recommend fine tuning and changes to the implementation or the configuration through INI-files.

I know this is a long post, but I hope there is interest in this solution. If you have any further questions please reply to this thread. If you want to support this mod or want to use this FL extension in your mod feel free to PM me. Please include your e-mail address and the amount of time you are able to spend on this.

NOTE: I will not release the source code and I will not give it away yet. I want it to stabilize and mature before doing so. So do not ask. And NO I do not have access to FL source code to accomplish this, but the mod does not require any changes to existing binaries.

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:56 am by Manhattan_Guy

I'm sorry, but how exactly do you want to apply changes that radical to the game without editing the EXE? There are no supply and demand values in vanilla Freelancer so I doubt you will be able to add them without exe editing.

And another thing that's making me doubting is the fact you don't know how to edit the essential INI files of the commodity market. How would you be able to do such extensive changes to the market system if you don't know how it works?

As I said, I'm sorry if I may underestimate you there, but it just sounds a little implausible you are able to do it.

Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:16 am by grover

Hi MG,

I actually kind of expected you to answer this thread

To answer your questions:

I'm sorry, but how exactly do you want to apply changes that radical to the game without editing the EXE? There are no supply and demand values in vanilla Freelancer so I doubt you will be able to add them without exe editing.

First off you are right. Vanilla FL does not provide this stuff. Let me elaborate a little my solution: I provide a DLL, which is loaded by Freelancer in the game. (Or by the server for MP.) This DLL provides the additions to the economic model. Freelancer has been developed with a lot of extensibility in mind and using this properly enables us to extend the game in ways most likely not even imagined by DA or MS. I even found the remains of an economic model in the binaries, which is similar to my solution and the promised economic model. Most likely they have deactivated it due to time constraints, bugginess or management pressure.

And another thing that's making me doubting is the fact you don't know how to edit the essential INI files of the commodity market. How would you be able to do such extensive changes to the market system if you don't know how it works?

MG, trust me I know how these files work. Its just that I do not want to explain to my potential team mates how they work. Additionally I am asking for help due to the size and complexity of providing a proper economic system. We can't just set the supply, demand and events to some random values. We must keep the balance in the universe as set by the original designers. Otherwise the prices will either sky rocket or drop down to almost zero over time. And neither of these things are going to make traders or pirates happy. (I would like to note however, that my model allows for the worth of a good to drop over time and become worthless after a configurable amount of time. This can be used to represent changes in technology. An example: H-Fuel becomes worthless after 3 years, as all new ships are equipped with MOX based engines and no one buys H-Fuel anymore.)

I am asking for help as this topic is very complex in nature and needs an integrated solution. You should actually unterstand it easily - just compare the effort to FL RtE.

As I said, I'm sorry if I may underestimate you there, but it just sounds a little implausible you are able to do it.

This was my first thought too, but I have implemented almost all features. I have tested stuff - I only need maybe one or two weeks more and a first version of this library is available for the potential team mates. I have *ALREADY* played with all features I promised - the final stuff just remains to be done.

I would not have posted this if it wouldn't be possible.

Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:48 am by grover

Hi,

just to show a proof of concept I just made a video using fraps of vanilla FL with my DLL on Manhattan, showing varying prices during simple trade with BORON. (There is no real pricing system there, just random price generation as proof of concept.)

The video can be downloaded here (approximately 44 MB, packed RAR archive.) It was recorded with FRAPS and the quality is not great, but it shows the point.

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:16 pm by ww2jacob

Wow, now that is SWEET.

I am very interested in this. Email me and I'll see about helping out.

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:08 am by SWAT_OP-R8R

hmm ive my doubts about the possibility to do this in multiplayer but ok im open for new ideas
and coz of the fact i dont really know what ur changes do and which effects they have on the fl net code ill give it a try

something new is always interesting ^^

so here is my mail ([email protected])... if needed i can organize a server and a bunch of testers
most likely i can help you to find out why its working in SP and not in MP so far

Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:22 am by FriendlyFire

I'd be interested to learn more about that method of implementation. If used correctly, it could improve Freelancer in almost any possible way, from warp drives to maybe even graphics engine upgrades.

If you could email me some info about it, my email is p r o g r a m e x p e r t AT g m a i l DOT c o m (Remove the spaces and AT =" @", DOT = ".", I prefer to reduce spam in my inbox

)

Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:50 pm by grover

This method of extending FL has its potential but also its limitations. I have not yet seen any graphics related possibilities as the actual rendering engine is in rp8.dll and it does not provide any reasonable information to use. (I didn't try hard however

)

What can be done using this method is to extend (or actually reuse and hook) various events, methods to provide stuff like the economy. The use is also not really easy, I would even dare to say that the use is limited to C/C++ and the information in the binaries is incomplete (of course thats normal for C/C++) so it takes a lot of work to get into and used to the system.

I have only touched the surface of this however. I believe there is a lot more possible, but don't expect a lot of documentation to appear on doing this. There were attempts before my one to reverse engineer or hack the game API.

I will publish the source for this at some point. (If I feel confident about the quality and the contribution to the community is large enough.) Please understand that I can't provide more details yet.

Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:26 am by grover

I've just started a tutorial series on the use of this addon over in the Tutorials section.

*** Tutorial *** Freelancer Real Economy

For those who are interested we're still looking for scripters and testers.

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:39 am by grover

We are still looking for more people, which can help script this. Any help is appreciated.

Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:00 am by Chips

Grr, I keep missing threads like this - but at the moment I've got exams coming up

Would you like this thread stickied?

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:13 am by grover

I wouldn't mind if it were stickied, but the interest seems to be rather low compared to the work it takes to finish this.

Important Message

You are browsing the archived Lancers Reactor forums. You cannot register or login.
The content may be outdated and links may not be functional.

To get the latest in Freelancer news, mods, modding and downloads, go to
The-Starport