looks like its covered in vines.

been sitting in the lawn too long?

I'M FAT YOU'RE FAT!
SEE YOU IN THE KITCHEN IN TEN MINUTES!

finally we get some tutorial right now. tx Harrier

Hey Victor, share your thoughts too

Working hard to earn... but too lazy to do something...

wolf demon,

that is not very nice of you, the model is an exercise and that amount of texturing took about 5 minutes, keep checking back to see the evolution.

If you have something to contribute - contribute - don't just "stand" there and say "oooh! look at that" looks like..........
If you have a sensible question to ask - ask it - and I will try to the best of my ability to answer it.

I will happily take constructive criticism - but I resent flames.

Take a look at the whole post, read it carefully, I think you’ll find that I am trying to do something to help others…… then take a look at the rest of this forum. I think you may find plenty of people who would like to know how to texture.

If I am wasting my time then that will be self evident in fairly short order and the post will die.. far be it for me to do something that there is no interest in……….

Harrier.


Retreat[![! ---- I'm too badly messed up now[![!

My thoughts? That could be dangerous

The tutorial will be a huge help though, with my recent enlightenment in modelling I've discovered the out of the entire process making the textures is the easy part

Seriously though, the UV map/texture coordiantes is the most important part of texturing or skinning the model. Unfortunately most modellers leave that part up to whoever is going to skin the model or they save it until the end and do it themselves. The best way to do the UV map is to map out the parts as you go taking care to eliminate any problems with distortions in the skin and making sure all of the surfaces are skined at the same scale (with a few exceptions). I did this while working on the Ogre and I found it much easier to be able to rotate the actual objects rather than trying to rotate the mapped faces on the skin, and even easier to map a single part, such as the wing or engine, before mirroring the part on the model since the mapped faces were now mirrored as well it was half the work. Also, since Milkshape will only let you use a single material for any given group in the model sometimes the mesh needs to be re-groupped in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense to a modeler. For example, on my Ogre the top faces on each wing are seperate groups while the underside and edges of both wings are in one group, most modelers like to simply group them as a left wing and a right wing.

Oh, and here a little trick while doing the UV mapping...

Find or make a simple grid or checkerboard texture the same dimensions that you'll want for the finished skin. Also, make a blank black texture the same size to use as the base for the actual skin. While you are actualy mapping the faces use the grid/checkerboard pattern and check the perspective view frequently. This pattern will quickly show you if you have any bad distortion and it will also make it easier to ensure the scaling is the same across different faces. Once you're happy with the mapping, put the blank black texture on the ship, select all of the faces (that have been mapped) go into your preferences and set the point size to 1x1, go back into the texture coordinate editor window and take a screenshot of the window (ALT-Print Screen) and presto! instant base skin with the mesh superimposed over it.

That should be enough thoughts for one post right?

jeez wofly

dont you do anything but flame...and why dont you go take the time to texture and then have the courtesy to teach others how to do it...i am working with harrier on a mod and he works harder than any single person i know...he makes his textures himself...then textures his models himself...and even finds the time to help out others who dont possess the knowledge to texture....he does all this....while raising a family...why dont you try that wolfy...i recommend you retract your statement and offer harrier a much deserved apology

- sorry if i went to far harrier

mad at wolfy
parabolix

i'm sorry jeez

i cant try to make a joke without getting som1 mad at me

maybe i should change me name to ):Wolf_Flamer

I'M FAT YOU'RE FAT!
SEE YOU IN THE KITCHEN IN TEN MINUTES!

Cut it out, both of you. Wolf was just kidding. Next time, put a smiley or two, Wolf - or - it makes a difference! Anyway, houldn't this be in the Tutorial forum? *whoosh*

ok ok truce, wolfdemon,

I did over react just a tad, will try to stick to the point from here on.

Fear factor, I would prefer it to be in the tutorial section, and agree that this is not the ideal place for it...... but my reasons were that it seems everyone who has made amodel and cant texture it comes here looking for help - or for someone to do it for them......... Can it be moved later or moved with a link here?

While I have your attention, any chance that you could host some texture files in the downloads section....... say 256 x 256 tga

Harrier.

Retreat[![! ---- I'm too badly messed up now[![!

ok so to proceed,

I suggest that anyone reading this pay particular attention to the tips that victor has added.
I do a similar thing when I do a texture, funny how people arrive at the same or similar solutions without the benefit of information exchange. My method has some slight differences so I will try to explain.

first of all I study the model and look at where I want the texture to go, then I break the models into separate "groups" and look for area's that are on a similar "plane". It is best I think to do a list:

The mystere has been broken into these major groups:

Cockpit - self explanatory - but can also consist of sub groups like cockpit trim, floor, console, seat etc... now we will come back to sub groups a bit further down the track.....
Fuselage - subgroups - front, back, top, bottom, sides etc., but again sub groups come later so we will just deal with the main ones first.
wing_lower - these are the lower panels of the "wing"
wing_upper - these are the upper panels of the "wing"
wing_panels - these are detail or odd panels that may be "featured" or are not on the same "plane" as the wing itself
wing_trim - the edges along the sides, front and back surfaces of the wing itself - these are normally at an acute angle to the wing itself - i.e. at right angles
connecting_group - these are components that connect the two wings together that you may want to apply a different texture to it......
engine_group - these are the 'parts' that make up the engine - things like the bit that sticks out of the body, exhaust trims etc... in the case of the mystere it has a pod mounted engine so it's easy to assign a group to it - again it will be broken up into sub groups later.
engine_support - again in the case of the mystere it is part of but completely separate from the engine group and connects the engine to the fuselage
ammo_pods - these are components that dont belong in any of the major groups I have used this as a description in the case of the mystere because that is what they look like.

now we have created approximately 10 major groups - these will be broken down into sub assemblies for texturing - or "dissembled" so we can texture each part individually - later on we can reassemble the model and reduce our groups into several groups only - say - body, wings, engine etc.....

Now for some tricks or tips:

you can break your model assemblies into groups - texture one and then regroup them into a major assembly and milkshape will transfer the mirror of the pattern onto the other part, for example wings can be broken into a 'left' and a 'right' the left is one group (a sub group) the right is another. Texture one - the left say -and then regroup the two and the texture is mirrored onto the other. a much simpler way is to make your model as a half, i.e. cut down the middle front to back, texture one side then duplicate/mirror the other and "presto" the exact same texture on both sides! you may still have to adjust some small parts, but as a whole the major part of the model is done. this will work on highly complex models as well a simple ones.

you can also transfer lines around corners by texturing the major "plane" then selecting a part say an angled edge and apply the SAME texture to that plane. You cannot do this if you want to use two different textures on the same part. they then have to be broken down into sub groups and textured separately.

that's enough for me now - I’ve probably confused every one so next time around I will try to illustrate with some pictures......


Retreat[![! ---- I'm too badly messed up now[![!

Ty Harrier and Victor! This tutorial is great for me; my mapping skills need work.

Well, let's keep it alive

To elaborate on the "why" part of grouping...

In Milkshape when you have a group of polygons selected to place in the texture coordinate editor window you do all of change to vertecies only, ok, not a big deal. Except... if you try to move vertecies that are shared with another face in the same group that are not selected, well you can't move them. So, you end up with some really odd looking lines all over the place as you try to arrange your mapped faces on the image. Did that make any sense? Let's try an example, if you have a cylinder (1 "stack" as a single group and you want to map the ends in one place and the sides in another while they are still in one group and you have already mapped the ends, when you place the mapping for the sides of the cylinder you will be unable to move any of the vertecies. However, if you re-group the two ends as a seperate group you can move the vertecies in the texture coordinate editor all you want.

And some quick tricks to mapping...

To quickly map multiple faces that are the same size to different portions of the texture image, only set the region once, every subsequent time you hit "remap" it will continue using the same region, now you can move the faces to another part of the texture and they'll be the same size.

Mmm, ok, only one trick, it's late, I'll come back when harrier moves on to the good part

ok so some more...... part 3

sub groups:

a couple of picture to illistrate the nest step:




Text to follow -

Harrier.


Retreat[![! ---- I'm too badly messed up now[![!

Okey dokey:

I've shown the model in flat shaded view for ease of identification and I hope you can follow my ramble. I'll try to keep it a simple as I can....

subgroups:

the pictures above are of the "major" group - "engine group" and consist of the following components:
engine_support
engine_assy
intake_cone
intake_plate
intake_throat
exhaust_inner
exhaust_plate
flame_can

Looks like a lot doesn't it and just for one bit! Each one will have different texture although some may share the same texture.. one point - if you were to use a totally different texture for each part then your mat file would be huge...... So we try to use some textures for common parts and by viewing from different angles or planes the texture can have a pattern i.e. plates when viewed from the top - but if just "applied' it can make streaky lines, a general colour, patches, stripes, a whole host of different effects can be achieved.

the most difficult parts to texture are generally things like cylinders, spheres, curved surfaces etc., because although they exist in two dimensions they "appear" to exist in three, so if you apply a texture to the top of a curved surface then the top and bottom view which are in the same "plane" will have the texture applied correctly but the sides will appear to "run" and the texture -because it is applied from the top - the sides look like and are just a series of stretched streaks, if you look closely at the top picture you may see examples of this, and anyone who has tried to texture a model will be familiar with it. it looks good from certain angles but looks crap from others.

So how to fix it: Ok, in the texture coordinate editor you have a multiple of views - I won't go into them here if you are reading this take a look - each of these views allow you to - (and this is important) - APPLY THE SAME TEXTURE TO DIFFERENT FACES IN THE SAME GROUP OR SUB GROUP - BY SELECTING EACH OF THESE FACES IN TURN!

This is the MOST important part of texturing - but it takes patience and time to achieve........

for example; the engine can is a cylinder - how do you apply a texture to it? - you have to think in 3d - the top and bottom are reasonably gentle curves, so are the sides - and here's the trick - select the whole cylinder, apply the texture to one view - say the top, then VERY carefully and without deselecting the whole thing select the sides of the cylinder (on a right angle plane) - go back to the texture coordinate editor and select the side view - hit remap and align the faces with each other - (the top view) and there you have it - a cylinder with the same tex aligned on all faces....

I do hope you understood at least some of that... experimentation is the key.. I explain it one way, Victor another... between us you should get the picture... it's not that its hard its just hard to explain.... next we will take some textures and apply them and if you follow at some point it should all start to drop into place..

back soon.

Harrier.


Retreat[![! ---- I'm too badly messed up now[![!

One detail, how can I save my work in that texture editor in Milkshape?


Rheinland über alles!